Musicforce.com
September, 1999
Laura Harris

Editors note: When anticipating my conversation with Gary Chapman last week, I really wasn't sure what to expect. I'd never met the man, but had heard enough of his music and seen enough of him on television to know that he is at times quite animated and comical. On the other hand, he's been through a rough year. First, his 16-year marriage with Amy Grant ended in divorce. Then, TNN cancelled Prime Time Country - the variety show he hosted for about three years. Having listened to his new release, Outside, I was struck with how the recording seemed to reflect equal parts pain and peace. Interestingly enough, that's exactly how I experienced our conversation. At times his wit and sense of humor had me smiling from ear to ear. But when he talked about more serious matters--his divorce, his kids, his future--his voice grew soft, his tone reflective and meek. I came away hopeful--that if this talented singer/songwriter was somehow finding redemption in the chaos of his life--perhaps others could too.

Laura Harris: You've been heralded as a great songwriter in your own right and even won a Dove Award for songwriter of the year many years ago. But I noticed on Outside that you wrote one song and co-wrote another, but the remaining eight tracks were penned by other songwriters. Why?

Gary Chapman: This is the first time I've ever opened as much as I did to outside material. I usually write most of it myself because I like for my records to be a reasonably accurate reflection of my life. Honestly, all of the songs I was writing as I was getting ready to do this record are good--and I'm proud of them--but they're just horribly sad. And I didn't want to record them. So I put out the word that I was looking, and I got so many great songs.

LH: I love the title track, "Outside." The music is stylistically much like several songs on one of your earlier albums, The Light Inside, and the lyrics are pretty thought provoking. I often hear people talking about how insular or even "in-bred" the Christian sub-culture is. Is that what this song is about?

GC: You nailed it. I'm a long way from "anti-church"--I mean I attend regularly and all of that. But it just really, really upsets me how we insulate ourselves from reality. In subtle ways, we tend to shut out the people who, even by our own admission, need to hear the gospel message the most.

LH: How do we do that?

GC: By hanging out together all the time. I don't [laughing]--most of my friends are real sinners.

LH: That must be how you end up in all sorts of random stories--not only in the Christian media but also in the secular arena. Didn't I read something about you and Ashley Judd in Elle magazine lately?

GC: It's so funny how the guy wrote that thing. Ashley doesn't have a tennis court so she asked to borrow mine, and I said, 'Yeah, sure. Go ahead.' So she shows up with her little instructor and a journalist who is following her around for this story. I was not even here when they got here-I was out running. So when I got back I was bare-chested, and the guy made a note of that. Well, it was 95 freaking degrees! I was running! Hell-oo!

LH: And so then it's implied that you were out there undressing for Ashley Judd.

GC: Yeah, I was flexing for Ashley. They don't happen to mention the fact that she's madly in love with a Brazilian race car driver.

LH: I was really intrigued with your take on the song, "Hold On." What has that song meant to you?

GC: The first time I heard "Hold On", all I could think about were my kids. They are the single best example in my life of God's grace. They're doing well. They're doing so much better than I would have ever dreamed [after our divorce.] That song is just what I want to say to them. At some point I have sat each of them down, played "Hold On" for them, and told them that I put that song on the record for them.

LH: You fly planes, ride Harleys, and I've even heard you do some pretty crazy things at your house on New Year's Eve. Is that true?

GC: Traditionally, we have had the world's shortest, yet amazing, fireworks display on New Year's Eve. We decorate Christmas trees with more fireworks than you really should have access to, spray them down with gasoline, and then torch them up. It's unbelievable.

LH: Does your son share your love of such excitement?

GC: In a huge, huge way. [Pauses]. Amy and I waited until a few days after Christmas last year to sit our kids down and basically tell them that their family was not going to remain intact. Matt took it very, very, very, very hard. But after the initial horrible shock, a couple of hours later he came in and said, 'Does this mean we're not going to blow up the Christmas trees?' I said, 'We're not going to have the New Year's Eve party, because it's probably going to take about a year to figure out which ones were your mom's friends, and which ones were mine. But you and I are going to blow something up.' So last year it was just the two of us.

LH: You said earlier that you want your music to be an accurate reflection of where you are in life. Obviously, you've just been through a divorce and your struggle with that at times seems evident on this record. There's a difference between being intrusive and being concerned. There are people out there who are genuinely wondering how you are doing in the wake of all that. What would you say to them?

GC: You know, it's really wonderfully strange. This year has been just bizarre. I lost my wife. I lost my job. And the crazy thing is that I think I have more joy than I have ever had in my life. I'm finding the difference between happiness and joy. And while it still hurts really badly, this [whole chapter] has in some sort of way has been very good for me. On a daily basis I have a new opportunity to slowly work my way toward being a bitter old man, or to slowly work my way toward being a joyful old man. And more often than not, I think day by day I'm choosing to be joyful.

LH: Going through a divorce is tough for anybody. But doing so in the public eye of an oft-times unforgiving and finger-pointing subculture must complicate things even more at times. What is it you want from the public right now? Privacy? Understanding?

GC: You know, I am so torn. Out of respect for everybody involved I want it to be private. But my need for justice is huge. At this point I'm just assuming that time will tell the story better than I ever could, so I'm shutting up.

LH: I know it's somewhat out of context, but I've often come to a point in conflict with another person where I've had to let go of it and say, as Sarai did to Abram, "The Lord judge between you and me."

GC: I've got a really good friend who is a recovering alcoholic. He's been sober for 10 or 11 years, and is really an amazing guy. I was talking with him last week about how I'm doing well, but there is a thread of something in me that is so detestable to me, so unlike what I want inside of me, and I can't seem to do anything about it. I pray for it to go away, and to the best of my ability I release it to God. Actually, I think it's hatred. And even saying that kills me. My friend said, 'Let me tell you what you need to do. Whoever you feel this toward, hit your knees every day and the things that you want for yourself--in your life--pray that they happen for that person. And I said, 'So it's okay to lie during the prayer? Because it's not what I feel.' But I agreed to try it. The next morning I did what he recommended. And you know what? There's something pretty amazing there. It is nowhere near finished in me, but I can already feel a turn.

LH: How did you get the Prime Time Country gig?

GC: I do a regular show down at the Ryman Auditorium--Sam's Place--and when their opening came, they came down there and saw me and gave me a shot.

LH: And just recently it was cancelled?

GC: Yeah, the whole network is basically cancelled [laughing]. They're just really changing the network. But the result is going to be really good. I am also confident that I will wind up somewhere better.

LH: You mean in television?

GC: Yes.

LH: So that wasn't really a sidetrack thing, it's something that you really wanted to do?

GC: No, no, I had no idea that I wanted to [work in television], I just needed to try it. And now three years down the road, I want to.

LH: This may be way off, but did I read somewhere that you were thinking about going down the road of artist development--maybe working with some upcoming folks, or doing some producing?

GC: Uhhh…. Nope. But I might! [laughing] That was probably before I was unemployed, so yeah, sure! That's a great idea.

LH: One more question: I saw a promotional video where you were driving a Hummer. Does it belong to you?

GC: Yes. Those are such bizarre vehicles. It's actually what I drive all the time.

LH: Are you serious?

GC: Uh-huh.

LH: Drive it around town?

GC: Yeah. It fits right in with my inconspicuous lifestyle.